Wednesday, May 23, 2007

Progressives Please Calm Down

Please. I mean it. We're about to cut our own throats here and that's exactly what the Cracker-Barrel party wants us to do. Stop playing right into their hands, calm down, take a deep breath and think this through logically.

The Iraq war bill as it was written was never going to pass. Not if we sent it back 50 thousand times. In the meantime funding was going to run out and whether or not it actually ended up affecting the "troops on the ground", the Republicans were going to play that to the hilt. And lo and behold, a huge percentage of America was going to buy it.

Democrats are in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" position here and it is our fault. Both the sign and don't sign camps need to get a little reality here. "WE" can't agree or even get a majority on one side or the in the HELL do you expect the elected leadership to???

If Americans had been serious about getting us out of Iraq, guess what? We'd already be out of there. We'd have stood up and stood our ground and it would be a done deal. We did not do that. No, we didn't do it for a lot of reasons but one I believe is the most significant: we don't want to accept responsibility for our choices. We want someone else to make the decision so if and when there are negative outcomes we will have someone else to blame and boot out of office.

This is exactly the way we've been playing the game for, well, forever and this is exactly why we have elected leaders waffling all over the House floor. We did not stand up to Dubya when he decided to invade Iraq because we were scared. If we stood up and said no and omg, Saddam DID do something to would be our fault too! Can't have that now can we? So we swallowed the bullshit and kept our mouths shut so if things went south we'd have someone to blame. That worked out really nicely too. We can all scream at der Chimper for the mess he's made but nearly everyone seems to have forgotten that OVER 70% of Americans WENT RIGHT ALONG WITH IT.

So now I hear the Democratic base threatening to bash in the brains of any Democrat who dares to sign the amended bill. Do you think they aren't calculating the odds of you turning on them the first time something goes awry? The Republicans must be jumping for joy.

The saddest part of it all is it doesn't really matter. We're leaving anyway, most likely right after the next election...assuming Bushie can find enough troops to keep the current action going until then. If we are serious about ending it now we should stop working at cross purposes by attacking each other and get serious about removing Bush from office.


Omnipotent Poobah said...

I agree, but who is this "we" you keep talking about? :-)

RJ Adams said...

Absolutely. If there's one thing this administration has been good at, it's divide and conquer. And, not just this administration. So long as party politics in America is treated similarly to a ballgame, with fans screaming loudly, each for their own side, it will always be the same. It is about time the American people realized their politicians have been taking them for a ride for a very long time. This administration has just been more blatant about it than most of the others. Almost certainly, an indication that the real controllers, the corporates, are gaining confidence that the American people can be hoodwinked ever more easily. It's time for America to unite, but frankly I doubt it will ever happen. Also, I'm not so sure about your last paragraph. America has more at stake in Iraq than was the case in Vietnam. Any president who opposes the corporates and pulls troops out will be brave indeed. Given the shower presently offering themselves for election on both sides (with the possible exception of Obama and Richardson, neither of whom has a chance of winning) I really can't see it happening.

Not Your Mama said...

OP: "we" = shorthand for American voters as a group in general. That is the way "we" roll.

RJ: going to have to, at some point soon there will not be enough troops left to send and no politician planning to maintain a career will go through with a draft.

Then there is the problem that I haven't seen addressed: do we REALLY want to pull out while Dubya is still at the helm?

Personally, as much as I want us out, I do not. We need Dubya out and I believe that is much of the holdup, if it makes me nervous I 'spect I am not the only one.

pekka said...

It's blatantly clear to most, even to the majority of the Americans, that this occupation never had any logical reason or need to happen. This absurd and totally counter productive fiasco has absolutely no rhyme or reason to continue a day longer. To inflict such an horrendous punishment on people that deserve it as much as you and I, is so evil and wrong, that I am hardly able to find words to discribe it. Millions displaced, tens of thousands dead, tens of thousands maimed, country in ruins, rampant deceases and injuries untreated, no water power or sanitation and no hope for the scared, huddled masses. And this is for...sorry, I don't even know for what?

No, I am sorry, but now finally is the time to do the right thing and stop this hair-brained, never ending nightmare which has and will accomplish ziltch. Maybe not ziltch, for armament industry, all sorts of hangers-on in and around the neocon business interests, religious grazies on both sides and some shady political characters in the Middle East have obviously done very well. For the rest of us, we have the new world to deal with and it isn't improved one.

Bush-Cheney gang has played their deadly game long enough for us to be able to see that the same old same old will keep going on. This is absolutely not acceptable for anybody who has an human heart. Since the bunch in the White House lacks the said organ, everything possible should be done to start at least investigation in the possibility to impeach both the president and the vice-president. The unjustifiable mayhem simply cannot be allowed to continue for another two or so years.

TomCat said...

I have no intention of deserting the Democratic Party, but that does not keep me from feeling betrayed. What happened to, "There's a new Congress in town" (Nancy Pelosi)? What you said about not getting a bill with time-lines passed is true. We could not overcome a veto. So if we keep sending back the same bill, and Bush keeps vetoing it, that's a stalemate. Would some voters blame the Dems? Sure! Would more blame Bush? I think so. One thing playing chess taught me is that when the best you can get is a stalemate take it, rather than tip over your king. If this bill passes, Congress will have sent Bush a powerful message: megalomania works.

Not Your Mama said...

Truth there...Dems will get blamed either way, that's the way it's been done for decades. Look at what's happening right now...Pelosi and Reid are getting 90% of the blame for this when the problem is not chiefly them, it's with a large contingent of the Dems who were elected this last cycle. Pelosi didn't betray us, the voters did.

I never really bought the "new Congress in town" bs. It made a lovely sound bite but it was not true. I looked at the Dems who managed to squeak through in many cases and it was more a case of their state voters picking a "less conservative Republican" than a Democratic victory. We didn't really "win" so much as Repubs lost. Look, our "Democratic victory" was Jim Webb???? If I were a believer I'd have started praying right then.

Dems COULD keep sending the same bill back long do you suppose they could keep doing that before most of America turned on them and we lost not only this fight but also the next election?

I wouldn't bet on very long because we have a reactive, redneck, dumbass population in about 6 or 7 out of 10 cases.

pekka said...

This matter is far beyond mere partisan advantage. There are things with which one simply must not "go along to get along"; this is one of them.This matter is far beyond mere partisan advantage. There are things with which one simply must not "go along to get along"; this is one of them.

Not Your Mama said...

True enough, I just don't believe this bill as it is written is as relevant as people are making it. If I'm wrong on that, well, I'll figure that out soon enough I'm sure.

It provides funding up until September.

Ok, ideally we would leave before then but reality is that short of overthrowing the current administration that is not going to happen. Regardless of this bill passing or not we are likely to be there come September.

The difference will be whether or not come September the bulk of Americans blame our failure to improve the situation in Iraq on the responsible parties (Bush & Co.) or on the Democratic party for "tying the military's hands".

That doesn't make me happy. I cried in 2000 when Bush was elected. I knew it was going to be a terrible time for this country. I had no idea it would be this terrible. Given my way, he would never have held office or at the very least we would have removed him years ago.

The bill is probably going to pass with or without any Democratic support so I'm not seeing where blaming it all on Pelosi and Reid or any other politician is going to be productive at all.

Blame it on the guilty parties and that would be all of us. If we were serious we'd have staged a national strike by now and been long out of there.

There's the harsh truth, most Americans like to bitch but they don't really care all that much. Convince them gas will be 10 cents a gallon if we leave Iraq and they'll be marching naked in the streets.

Not Your Mama said...

This was my comment on another blog:

Then we need to strike.

This from me who has had 3 of her own serve, one still serving.

Fighting each other to the death over a bill that will only provide funding until September is only going to weaken our hands and strenghten the war party.

If we are serious about getting our troops out then we put our money where our mouths are and just do it.

RJ Adams said...

All this talk of Repubs v. Dems and who holds the best cards is merely a continuation of the same old ballgame mentality. If Democrats are genuine in their desire to support what they say was a mandate from the people, they should have stood for what they believed, rather than try to "play politics". It's time politicians learned that governing is not about about "playing" at anything. It's a deadly serious business where values matter. And the values are dictated, not by them, but by the electorate. I support your call for a general strike, but given the apathy of most of your countrymen, have to smile at the very suggestion. Nevertheless, I admire you for even suggesting it.

Not Your Mama said...

There's the answer. When even the most vocal anti-war Dems are not interested in taking any decisive action how can any reasonable person expect elected representatives to do so? It's all just talk and I'm not feelin' it anymore.

TomCat said...

Unfortunately you're both right. Apathy is the biggest obstacle democracy faces.